Steph and I are joined by Rev. Betsy Ouellette Zierden for an honest conversation about how we tend to hold onto ideas that we know don’t work. Sometimes we have ideas about the Bible, God, our family of origin, or even ourselves that help us for a time, but then get in our way. Steph had to let go of her ideas about the importance of job security in order to leave her job at Apple and launch her full-time DIY business. Betsy, an ordained elder in the United Methodist Church, had to let go of the idea that God didn’t call women to preach and pastor. I had to let go of ideas that connected her self-worth to her productivity. Steph, Betsy, and I talk about everything from systemic racism to religion the Bible and more in this episode.

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